I recently got a confused look when I said that I pay for my email provider (3€/mo, but 1€/mo would also work).
Many people don’t realize that operating an email server creates cost and they pay with letting Google/Yahoo/… read and analyze their communication.
I self host mine :P
Using the term “normies” paints you as having a superiority complex, which isn’t the best look.
Everyone is a normie for some things
Really? I just interpreted the use of normie here as “layperson” or “average user” and thought it was completely harmless.
Yes, it means layperson, but with derogatory cense. It is like using the n-word to describe black people (though not as extreme). If you mean average user, just say average user, unless you really mean to use derogatory term, that is.
I appreciate you calling out the use of the term “normie”. Communities that frequently use such terms always end up with an unhealthy “us vs them” mentality.
Like I’m not surprised people don’t react well to someone bringing up privacy issues if said person starts the conversation with the mentality of “how do I enlighten this normie?”
How do I reeeach theese Normies
Severely lacking in car company logos.
Oh, those aren’t gaping Patrick’s mouth…
‘There’s no point fighting it’ or ‘Privacy is already dead’
The arguments that make my eye twitch, It’s such a defeatist outlook but seems like the most common nowadays.
Everyone says this kind of stuff about any and every social issue. It drives me insane, do people not realize that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy? If everyone I heard say “there’s no point fighting it” got together and fought it, they’d easily win.
There is a 3rd argument which I think is a bit more valid in “I value the service I receive in exchange for my personal data”
Using the internet without an adblocker, noscript, and whatever else is really nasty. But even if you aren’t on these platforms, marketers are still building profiles on you. Honestly we need data privacy legislation and some real talk about marketing and the costs of using the internet as a society.
That argument pisses me off.
“I don’t mind so fuck you.”
If you want to use those services, that’s your business. But I don’t use those services; they still keep my data.
“But why would they care about MY data, I don’t do anything special”
Anyone outside of tech when I even passingly mention privacy
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Do YOU have anything to hide??
“Yea my bank information, passwords, personal identity, identity of all my loved ones. But hey, if you hate having security and love being blackmailed and hate everyone who you have ever made contact in your life and wish to make their life hell then you do you and stay far the fuck away from me. We don’t know each other and we never will”
What’s the counter to that sentence then?
Every time I try to explain why this is a dumb sentence using the door lock analogy I always get rebuffed by it.
All the answers you got show why this conversation goes badly. No one can come up with an actual problem that data collection causes, it’s all silly comparisons to giving people your credit card number or shitting in front of them.
For me, having my data collected is like having CCTV cameras in stores. Yeah, technically someone is filming everything I do. Yeah it would be bad if a private individual was filming me for nefarious reasons. But no one actually uses that data for anything bad, and it doesn’t actually cause any problems.
All that happens is I get more relevant ads.
Well to be fair even if you go full conspiracy theory or whatever an go insane to the point of blocking everything I doubt you are completely safe from anyone knowing who you are or what you do. In my country a few years back it was a big scandal because the internet ISPs were decrypting trafic and we’re knowing everything anyone did on the internet as well as selling that date to ad companies. So I don’t really care about this shit anymore cause I already know someone somewhere is already selling my data, I use an ad block just to not be bothered by stupid pop-up ads and that’s about it.
Agree. Full-doomer isn’t for everyone. We can reduce our attack surface, but there’s no silver bullets. Just using a good adblocker increases privacy quite a bit, and quite frankly makes browsing the web bearable.
internet ISPs were decrypting traffic
I always thought it was a little sus that the NSA designed a lot of of the ciphers we use today.
Much of the obsession internet people have over ““privacy”” is just a feel-good-about-themselves thing, rather than actually protecting themselves from their data being collected and used. If you’re posting on the internet, yes that includes Lemmy, there’s almost no doubt that any government and world-destroying corporation would have easy access to everything about you in an instant, even if you go out of your way to try to use services “focused on privacy”. You aren’t protecting yourself from anything by not using Google/Microsoft/etc. products.
There is no “chipping away bit-by-bit” when it comes to this, it’s pretty much meaningless unless you’re nearly completely off the grid, to the point where you don’t even use modern technology. The worst you’re gonna do otherwise is fuck up targetted ads, but that’s not very hard to do considering Google apparently thought I was a pregnant woman looking for leather boots and beauty products when I still had ads on YouTube.
I wish people would admit it’s really not about their privacy. Say it’s because FOSS services are better (because they are), say it’s so you don’t get spam from shitty sites you gave your email to, say it’s so you can fit in in your niche online communities, whatever. But 99.99% of people in “privacy” communities haven’t even put a dent in the data being collected from them by large entities, hell most people in these communities think VPNs will protect them from anything at all other than their parents or boss not noticing them being on porn sites (VPNs can help with privacy, but only under specific conditions that most people aren’t meeting)…
That’s just demonstrably false
Stupid question: What exactly are the dangers being implied here? I have accounts with all of these services although I don’t use all of them. I know that they are using and selling my personal information, is there more? I have ways of doing things in private when I need and I’m aware that using these services has no expectations of absolute privacy.
Privacy = freedom. If you don’t have privacy, or to the extent you don’t have privacy, you are in proportion not free.
It seems to me this is the trade off we are all figuring out how to make. For example, I’ve considered not having a cell phone at all, but then I find it almost impossible to get a job, or operate in the economy. So I use a custom privacy ROM. I have no illusions that this is perfect, but at least a step in the right direction.
I think the most practical answer is to gain knowledge of the situation, and limit our attack surface. I don’t think there’s any silver bullets, unless you want to live like the Amish (which, doesn’t sound like a bad idea, either. If that’s what you want and you can do it, go for it.)
what do you mean by free? if total privacy means i can’t have a phone or talk to most people then does that really make me more free?
i agree that privacy is important, but i think this is fundamentally a legislative problem. there’s only so much that can be done at the individual level without making massive sacrifices and dedicating a serious amount of time to it. i have a vpn, i use content blockers, etc. but i think its too simplistic to say more privacy = more free.
one of the other commenters mentioned the thing about having someone looking in while you’re watching tv. but if the only solution is to go live in the woods, is it really worth it?
if total privacy means i can’t have a phone or talk to most people then does that really make me more free?
Yes, and it’s totally based if you do this. Our gadgets don’t really makes us more free. At least not with how they’re currently used. Everyone is disconnected from nature, sunsets, each other, and more. When’s the last time you saw a concert? Everyone is staring at their phones and not even enjoying the moment they’re in. Many are depressed and drowning in meaninglessness. When we look at old pictures of beaches from the 90s (not even that old) everyone appears physically fit, bright, and happy. Did our gadgets really make us any more free, or happy?
but if the only solution is to go live in the woods, is it really worth it?
Yes.
it seems like you’re blaming all of societies problems on technology. surely there must be more to it than that, right? the lack of fitness for example may be due to increasing grocery costs, the rise of fast food, the cost of living crises, and/or many other economical/sociological factors.
i just really don’t understand your argument here. you’re conflating the concept of “privacy” (the original topic of the conversation) with “all of our gadgets” and the effects of those gadgets. i don’t see anything in your comment that’s related to privacy.
and do you honestly think you’ll find more meaning by living in the woods? if so, why haven’t you done it?
it seems like you’re blaming all of societies problems on technology.
We are talking about technology, and privacy. And I’m answering your questions. I’m no one special, and I don’t have all the answers. Just because you and I are talking about this specific topic doesn’t mean that’s all I care about. Respectfully, what a silly thing to say.
and do you honestly think you’ll find more meaning by living in the woods? if so, why haven’t you done it?
Again, I’m no one special. But I that’s exactly what I’m doing. Because I wouldn’t offer any advice that I myself wouldn’t be willing to follow. We sold our property in the city and purchased acreage on the countryside, are raising animals, and planting a garden this year. It’s great. Humanity needs more experiences like this that are in harmony with nature and natural living, and less in the dull, gray brutalist, dehumanizing cityscapes we’ve created.
you’re conflating the concept of “privacy” (the original topic of the conversation) with “all of our gadgets” and the effects of those gadgets.
Right. Because there’s nothing inherently wrong with gadgets. But our modern gadgets are purpose-built to be addictive, monopolize our attention and time, and invade our privacy. I believe these are all interrelated.
I think the funniest part of this meme is every company bar Amazon, Discord (both not in market yet), and TikTok (Chinese) were confirmed to be a part of NSA’s PRISM
graphic design is the NSA’s passion
