• Ledivin@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    to prevent young people from having fun, being happy and finding meaning and fulfillment in their lives.

    Hasn’t virtually every single study ever performed on the subject found a strong, direct link between unhappiness and social media use?

    • huey_m@reddthat.com
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      8 hours ago

      Depends what counts as social media. YouTube could very much be implicated as a social media. Reddit/Lemmy obviously. There’s a ton of legitimately educational material on both platforms. What about Steam? With chat/friends/community function, isn’t that a social media? Where is the line drawn?

      How well have these studies accounted for neuro-divergence in kids (something Europe has generally done a pretty poor job accommodating)? What about kids with certain disabilities that put them indoors often if not essentially always? Isn’t the isolation worse for their mental health?

      Is there not some point at which you really do just have to depend on parents being parents? I accept that some state involvement is necessary sometimes, but this really feels pretty solidly in the purview of something that should be up to parental judgement.

      • yes_this_time@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Youtube is a massive problem for boys. There may be a couple of educational things on there but it’s adjacent to awful recommended content.

        I would debate the value of the “educational” content as well. We certainly aren’t getting smarter through the internet. Read a book, find a mentor, stay in school.

        • huey_m@reddthat.com
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          4 hours ago

          Youtube is a massive problem for boys. There may be a couple of educational things on there but it’s adjacent to awful recommended content.

          So is it worth losing access to Veritasium, Extra History, Professor Dave Explains, countless sources for learning programming…? This is like banning kids from TV because Jackass exists. It’s always been parents’ job to help guide their kids towards media that is more wholesome and fulfilling rather than tripe.

          True of books, too, by the way… the written word isn’t an automatically higher art. Pulp has always been a thing, and anyone who actually does do a lot of reading can confirm there is a lot of tripe out there right now in book form.

          Read a book, find a mentor, stay in school.

          Learning to use digital content is a big part of school. It isn’t the 70’s anymore. This is like pushing for abstinence only education… it is pretty much proven, from sex ed to drugs, not to work. You need to teach responsible use.

          • yes_this_time@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            Youtube as a platform is trash (in my opinion). Not to say there aren’t some gems in there.

            I’m not familiar with the channels you mentioned but trust your judgment. I would love to see a platform curated with high quality content.

            “Hey mom and dad can I use ‘historyTube’” “Absolutely!”

            Easy.

            The analogies don’t really hold. Traditional Broadcasters have some standards. Jackass is Disney compared to the back alley swamp that is YouTube.

            Think about the experience of going into a library or bookstore vs. YouTube, the content mix is not comparable.

            The algorithms, content scale, and access is another world.

            • huey_m@reddthat.com
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              3 hours ago

              I would love to see a platform curated with high quality content.

              Nebula. It isn’t perfect, and it needs more creators, but that’s the closest I’ve come.

              “Hey mom and dad can I use ‘historyTube’” “Absolutely!”. Easy.

              Well, not if it’s banned as social media, that’s the issue.

              Traditional Broadcasters have some standards.

              Broadcasters did because they had laws restricting their content. Cable very much did not.

              Think about the experience of going into a library or bookstore vs. YouTube, the content mix is not comparable.

              My experience is that the stuff pushed by most libraries as their hot new items, things to read, general recommendations, are pretty much slop. Romantasy slop is a big genre all its own.

              Which isn’t to say people can’t enjoy it, but it really isn’t much better than YouTube slop.

              The algorithms , content scale, and access is another world.

              Now that, I agree is an issue, but that’s just as true for adults as we’ve seen. I’d have less issue restricting how algorithms are pushed than mandatory ID… it would benefit all of society, not just kids, and it’s actually a positive improvement on privacy since it disincentivizes profile building.

              • yes_this_time@lemmy.world
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                2 hours ago

                The Australian ban, and proposed bans in other countries (generally I only looked at a couple) aren’t targeting things like Nebula though, focus is on large scale user to user platforms.

                I just checked out YouTube front page in a fresh browser and it’s several tiers below Romantasy in my opinion. You may have a more personalized experience, but the front door of Youtube is… nauseating.

                The medium matters as well, the audio, visuals, length, like a sleezy, hyper active content casino.

                Anyway, I cheer for any friction added to these tech companies because they are doing so much harm, so anything to slow them down.

                But I do get the concerns around IDs and privacy (I personally wouldn’t provide any). I think regulatory capture concerns are real as well. My preference would be on targeting the recommendation systems, and also making the platforms liable for content they are broadcasting.

                • huey_m@reddthat.com
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                  1 hour ago

                  You may have a more personalized experience, but the front door of Youtube is… nauseating.

                  Is that really a good reason for banning its use for kids? Again, this is like shutting off library access because the stuff presented at the front is slop… my library presents slop at the front door, I don’t think that should stop kids from going inside.

                  I’d also point out at least my library doesn’t do any age verification or ID checks either.

                  Anyway, I cheer for any friction added to these tech companies because they are doing so much harm, so anything to slow them down.

                  I think this is cutting off your nose to spite your face though when it allows… mandates, rather, a huge collection of data. I’m not so sure big tech is really against this… early iterations of code to verify age were said to not store any data, but auditors found that to not be the case. That was walked back, but I find it very unlikely they won’t just do it again when there’s less scrutiny.

                  Especially since kids are likely going to just get on through backdoors anyway, we’ve likely done very little to stop data collection on them while handing them most adults on a silver platter. That’s in no way a score for the little guy.

                  I’m totally on board with fucking tech companies, I just don’t think this does it while simultaneously it fucks us.

                  • yes_this_time@lemmy.world
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                    53 minutes ago

                    It’s not at all comparable. If I go into a library and get a book on fixing cars, the librarian doesn’t follow me around suggesting Joe Rogan.

                    Kids books from the library don’t autoplay a pipeline of incrementingly extreme, dangerous or vapid content.

                    I don’t see the value in the data being greater than the cost of administrating a patchwork of varied regulations across the globe.

        • pirat@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          We certainly aren’t getting smarter through the internet.

          Speak for yourself. I am, without a doubt.

    • Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.ml
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      16 hours ago

      To a large degree, yes, but blanket bans on social media use for minors will fail for multiple reasons.

      1. This has already been the case in Australia, and the latest numbers indicate that a vast majority of youth still access social media via black/grey market account purchasing, VPNs, and other methods.
      2. The ban doesn’t include some popular platforms like Telegram, which arguably provide a more risky experience, due to it being a popular platform for criminal activities.
      3. Taking away a huge swath of social platforms from kids without providing any constructive or healthy alternatives will mainly encourage destructive behaviors.
      • Meatwagon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 hours ago

        Point 3:

        Adults have been making the outside more and more hostile for kids. There’s no more third spaces. So like you said, they’re removing a third space with nothing to replace it with.

      • yes_this_time@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        I wonder how much more effective the Australian ban will be when peer countries follow suite and erodes network effect.

        • Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.ml
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          14 hours ago

          Very true, but that may make things worse down the line. Once they realize that kids are circumventing their restrictions, they won’t think, “Hmm, maybe a blanket ban of social media for minors wasn’t a great idea.” They’re just going to double down and say that there needs to be more hardcore restrictions on all internet/computer activity. More sensorship, more data harvesting, mandatory governement spyware in all devices.

          Essentially the Great Firewall in China. Many governments have already expressed interest in modeling national internet access after China.

    • FineCoatMummy@sh.itjust.works
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      24 hours ago

      Hasn’t virtually every single study ever performed on the subject found a strong, direct link between unhappiness and social media use?

      From what I’ve seen, the answer is it’s complicated. On avg, you’re right, and it prob does cause unhappiness and mental health probs. But there are unique situations where it can be helpful. Ex, people who do not fit norms of thier peers, and find healthy connections with others more like themselves. So it has no single, simple universal answer.

      The algos, esp on big tech social media like FB, IG, TT, X, etc, are very much designed to make you unhappy and outraged. Even the data scientists who designed the algos have testified to that fact before the US congress. B/c anger and outrage is the most powerful way to make you engage more. TT’s internal research shows the more you use TT, the more probs you have with cognitive skills like memory formation, empathy, and anxiety.

      Ofc, the harms of social media doesn’t mean these bills are the right way to handle that. I believe we have a prob. But this is not the right solution.

    • schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
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      1 day ago

      If that is so, which I do not know, the only logical explanation is that people who are already unhappy, for unrelated reasons, are more likely to need to find at least some happiness in their lives by participating in online communities.